. >> it was recently revealed the national security agency spied on 35 different world leaders. now as you know, the revelation was made possible by the great edward snowden. would you call him an american dissident in the same way -- >> i would -- >> you describe -- you would? >> i would, indeed. one of the things i think is a fact of our lives, i think we all know it, 1984 is not a theoretical possibility but a regard reality. we're all under surveillance at all times. the wonderful thing about edward snowden and glen greenwald and chelsey manning, it's not that they're preventing it but they're watching them watching us. that's worth something and allows us to push back and demand something better. >> bill ayers, thank you, sir, for joining us this afternoon. >> appreciate it. >>> coming up, the republicans' self-destruction tour invades the old dominion. yes, virginia. and this, this is no laughing matter. >> i think liberals don't have much of a sense of humor compared to conservatives. that's my personal experience. >>> four . >>> for republicans, 2016 may begin in virgini